So, if we're going to jump on this "Nerf Wizards!" bandwagon, let's see some other nerfs.
First of all, all powers that deal damage upon entering the zone should be limited to once per turn. Note that this should apply not just to Wizard powers, but to powers in general. I'm not going to go through and itemize them however.
Furnace of Sand also needs to be nerfed to a static value, probably 5 + Intelligence modifier.
Stonewrack can serve as a passable exception to the once per turn rule as long as we modify the text to read "Whenever a creature that is not prone enters or moves within the zone-" that way, the first time the target suffers damage, it falls prone, which would mean it's immune to suffering the damage again while prone. Due to its smaller area and immobility, we can accept the Prone element, so it makes sense to give the damage a Cloudkill esque level, at a flat 10+Intelligence modifier.
If going through with all these nerfs, I strongly recommend changing Summon Marilith to instead make melee attacks against all enemies within reach, rather than the intense damage of multiple hits. Possibly add a rider that increases the Marilith's defenses for every hit (in order to compensate for the fragility of summons).
Friday, July 15, 2011
Wizard Playtest: Farewell Slide Shenanigans
Well, that's not entirely accurate. There are still plenty of powers out there that deal damage dice of damage upon entering a zone, and the new cloudkill is actually pretty potent. If anything, this spells the end of the Staff of Ruin necessitation for zone wizards.
For those not in the know, you can find out here: http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dra/201107wizard
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. Letting non-essentials wizards pick their own cantrips is a nice bonus, and Elemental Maw actually got an UPGRADE depending on how you look at it (Hint: It requires Spell Accuracy), but all in all, the Slide Spam build-aka the one I'm playing in another game I'm in-took a seriously heavy hit. Not only that, but wizards can no longer auto-obliterate minions left and right, with the vast majority of powers that deal damage from a zone being changed from start of turn to end of turn.
It's certainly true that the existing wizard powers were way too strong, and the modifications to Stinking Cloud and Cloudkill, not to mention Flaming Sphere, do address the Wizard's propensity for insane amounts of autodamage. But I'm left wondering if it isn't a little too much. What's odd is that since the article couldn't address every power, anyone who's playing with anything outside of Core will just take Furnace of Sand, which is now demonstrably more powerful than most daily powers.
I think it's a step in the right direction but also most likely a step too far. Damage once per turn was definitely necessary. ALSO making damaging zones into static damage, so that Cloudkill can deal a maximum of 20 damage if you just happen to end your turn in it, was probably too much.
For those not in the know, you can find out here: http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dra/201107wizard
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. Letting non-essentials wizards pick their own cantrips is a nice bonus, and Elemental Maw actually got an UPGRADE depending on how you look at it (Hint: It requires Spell Accuracy), but all in all, the Slide Spam build-aka the one I'm playing in another game I'm in-took a seriously heavy hit. Not only that, but wizards can no longer auto-obliterate minions left and right, with the vast majority of powers that deal damage from a zone being changed from start of turn to end of turn.
It's certainly true that the existing wizard powers were way too strong, and the modifications to Stinking Cloud and Cloudkill, not to mention Flaming Sphere, do address the Wizard's propensity for insane amounts of autodamage. But I'm left wondering if it isn't a little too much. What's odd is that since the article couldn't address every power, anyone who's playing with anything outside of Core will just take Furnace of Sand, which is now demonstrably more powerful than most daily powers.
I think it's a step in the right direction but also most likely a step too far. Damage once per turn was definitely necessary. ALSO making damaging zones into static damage, so that Cloudkill can deal a maximum of 20 damage if you just happen to end your turn in it, was probably too much.
Tuesday, June 28, 2011
Staying on One's Guard
It just occurred to me that, in addition to your standard "Spend actions to make perception checks" when you suspect something is up, wouldn't it be prudent to be persistently using the Total Defense action? With a defensive weapon, you're actually very resilient to surprise attacks.
Not sure why I haven't thought of that before.
Not sure why I haven't thought of that before.
Monday, June 20, 2011
Solos: Hecatoncheires (Test Build)
I don't have any campaigns going on at the moment, but I was toying around with some various concepts. Here's the Hecatoncheires I was working out.
This solo monster doesn't have a dedicated cleanser power that it can use on its own, but has some various ways to counter immobilization and restraining effects. Most notably, any attack penalty effects can result in the triggering of it's cleanser power, so there's a trade-off in applying them.
Hecatoncheires | Level 31 Solo Skirmisher |
Huge | XP 115,000 |
HP 1290; Bloodied 645 AC 47; Fortitude 43; Reflex 42; Will 41 Speed 10 Saving Throws +5; Action Points 2 | Initiative +27 Perception +22 |
Traits | |
Fifty Heads, a Hundred Swords | |
The Hecatoncheires acts on its initiative and on an initiative count of its initiative +10, and regains the usage of its Immediate Action whenever it takes a turn. If the Hecatoncheires is stunned or dominated at the end of its turn, that effect ends. | |
A Hundred Mistakes | |
Whenever the Hecatoncheires fails to hit with any attacks while using Scimitar Barrage, any effects currently present on the Hecatoncheires end. | |
Infinite Actions | |
The Hecatoncheires has Threatening Reach, and can take an unlimited number of opportunity actions each turn. The Hecatoncheires is still limited to one opportunity action per trigger. | |
Ignore the Challenge | |
Whenever the Hecatoncheires attacks a creature that has marked it, that mark immediately ends. | |
Standard Actions | |
m Scimitar • At-Will | |
Attack: Melee 3; +36 vs. AC | |
Hit: 2d10 damage (Crit: 3d10+20), and the target suffers ongoing 10 damage (save ends). | |
M Scimitar Barrage • At-Will | |
Target: One adjacent creature Effect: The Hecatoncheires makes five Scimitar attacks against the target. If the target is suffering from ongoing damage and all five attacks hit, the target's ongoing damage doubles. | |
Scimitar Dance • At-Will | |
Requirements: The Hecatoncheires must be bloodied. | |
Effect: The Hecatoncheires moves its speed. During this movement, it does not provoke attacks of opportunity and can enter enemy spaces. The Hecatoncheires makes a Scimitar Barrage attack against any enemy whose space it enters. | |
Minor Actions | |
Rage of the Chained One • At-Will 1/round | |
Requirements: The Hecatoncheires must not have attacked this turn. | |
Effect: The Hecatoncheires gains a cumulative +10 damage to its next usage of Scimitar Barrage. The Hecatoncheires cannot attack before the end of this turn. | |
Triggered Actions | |
M Blade Ward • At-Will | |
Trigger: An enemy makes a melee or ranged weapon attack against the Hecatoncheires. | |
Attack (Immediate Interrupt): Melee 3 (The triggering creature); +36 vs. AC | |
Hit: 2d10 + 0 damage and the Hecatoncheires gains a +4 bonus to defenses against the triggering attack. |
This solo monster doesn't have a dedicated cleanser power that it can use on its own, but has some various ways to counter immobilization and restraining effects. Most notably, any attack penalty effects can result in the triggering of it's cleanser power, so there's a trade-off in applying them.
Wednesday, June 8, 2011
Trials and Tribulations of a Leaderless Game
So, last night-that would be Monday evening, I suppose, though it's somewhat seeing as how I pen this in the wee hours of the morning-I took part in the game wherein I am a player. We were faced with a Long Fight in a pokemon stylized battle. But the significant element of the battle was that, like the battle before, we were without a leader. That is, our healing consisted of a single potion of vitality (each), Second Wind, and whatever other personal heals we had availible (which to the best of my knowledge was "none.")
Frankly, it was awesome-part of the reason we were able to win (sort of: technically we had to stop mid-fight since the DM had to head to bed, but it's clear that we're going to nuke the enemy before it acts again) is because of ridiculous terrain features (and myself, the overpowered this-should-seriously-be-nerfed-but-no-not-really-because-I-don't-want-to-suck forced movement user). The other half is probably due to the Monty Haul style of treasure usage for the campaign.
Sadly, we didn't make it out unscathed-the party avenger bit the dust when in phase three, a plant based pokemon (I told you it was a pokemon stylized battle didn't I?) used a really nasty "Unconscious (Save Ends)" attack. With all the Coup De Graces going on, there was really nothing we could do to save her. Not sure we could have had we had a leader though.
My thoughts on the matter are that, you can really quite wildly reduce the overall difficulty level of monsters just by removing healing from the game-or rather, severely limiting it. It creates such a tremendously different play experience, which can be refreshing if you've gotten tired of the "Defender drops to 0, healer drops a Healing Word" style of play. But the flip side is, everything is suddenly a lot more lethal, making the game ultimately more swingy.
Kind of reminds me of 3rd edition.
Frankly, it was awesome-part of the reason we were able to win (sort of: technically we had to stop mid-fight since the DM had to head to bed, but it's clear that we're going to nuke the enemy before it acts again) is because of ridiculous terrain features (and myself, the overpowered this-should-seriously-be-nerfed-but-no-not-really-because-I-don't-want-to-suck forced movement user). The other half is probably due to the Monty Haul style of treasure usage for the campaign.
Sadly, we didn't make it out unscathed-the party avenger bit the dust when in phase three, a plant based pokemon (I told you it was a pokemon stylized battle didn't I?) used a really nasty "Unconscious (Save Ends)" attack. With all the Coup De Graces going on, there was really nothing we could do to save her. Not sure we could have had we had a leader though.
My thoughts on the matter are that, you can really quite wildly reduce the overall difficulty level of monsters just by removing healing from the game-or rather, severely limiting it. It creates such a tremendously different play experience, which can be refreshing if you've gotten tired of the "Defender drops to 0, healer drops a Healing Word" style of play. But the flip side is, everything is suddenly a lot more lethal, making the game ultimately more swingy.
Kind of reminds me of 3rd edition.
Tuesday, May 31, 2011
Level Thirty
I am a huge fan of epic play. To quote one of my own quotes (as vain as that may be), "I thrive on needless complexity." And nothing is quite so complex as an epic level build.
But somewhere along the way, the developers seem to have decided that "Epic" means "Outside of the domain of balance." It's true that 4th Edition is far more balanced than third edition ever was at epic, but I'm often left wondering "what were they thinking?" when I see a class feature or power that's above 23rd level. Though honestly, with some classes, it's not even limited to that high level, but I digress.
There is an inherent thinking in most people's minds, in my experience, towards wanting to start campaigns at lower levels-namely, level one. The reduced complexity means it's easy to get into the game and play from scratch, and it allows for more room to grow. But campaigns are finite entities, and advancement is relatively linear. In short, the higher level something is, the less often you're likely to see it in real play. Which means the less playtesting it gets. So when something at epic is nerfed, you can pretty much bet it's because it was just flat-out broken.
By far the worst offender in this department is the aforementioned level thirty. After all, when you're 30th level, why are you still playing? You've maxed your XP, and have only one level's worth of treasure to gather. Perhaps you wish to beat the crap out of Tiamat. Which shouldn't be hard, considering you're laden with the features I'm about to describe! A lot of destinies also have overpowered 26th level utilities, but that's a bit different of an issue, and almost universally is limited to 1/day (which because it's "Only a Daily" means it doesn't count, am I right?)
It's the Top X of Y overpowered Epic Destiny 30th level features list! You'll notice that a lot of these destinies are of the "WTF that's worthless" variety if you were to ignore these features. Go figure-I guess that constitutes "Balance."
Glorious Spirit (Bearer of Doom): Reading over this, I was really blindsided. On the one hand, you'd think it'd be relatively useless-after all, who wants to miss with a power, right? But it's actually really quite insidious. Bearer of Doom works in junction with any single target power-including daily attacks. Here we have a good way to get unlimited rages, unlimited heals, unlimited who knows what! All you have to do is attack unarmed and you're fighting at -9 to hit. Throw in Power Attack for good measure and you're at -11. If you can figure out any other way of crippling your attack bonus, that goes a long way. Also useful for when you want to hit-Storm of Blades comes to mind
Arcane Sword (Spellsword Perfection): Holy Frack on a Frackertonbox. Whatever that means. Arcane Sword is the quintessential "Playing for 30" Epic destiny. Level 21 is mediocre (roughly equivalent to an average epic feat), 26th level is utterly useless, and I've no idea how to interpret 24th level-does your sword automatically win the battle, since it can't be attacked? But the Coup De Grace is At-Will Lightning Bolt Charge. And let's be frank-there's maybe one or two other powers that are even remotely as useful, but under virtually all circumstances? Lightning Bolt Charge is where it's at. Deal more damage per round than a ranger! Unless said ranger managed to find one of these epic destinies. What's great is that this one feature can take a build that has no viable at-will attacks-because it has no Intelligence based attacks and only multiclassed Swordmage-and give it a viable at-will option. It's absurd.
Archlich (Essence of Undeath): You know, to be honest, I don't even know if this is overpowered. It feels overpowered to me, but that's a bad barometer. It doesn't really belong on this list-at least not as long as I'm keeping Archmage, Archspell, and Lorekeeper off the list. Still, with the Archlich's autoplinkage of minions, a bard lich can have a crapton of heals per encounter. Fair warning: due to the unique dynamic they incur, Rules As Written disallows an artificer from actually being able to use this feature to regain Curative Admixture uses. Go figure.
Avangion (Avangion Rising): Who needs leaders anymore, am I right? With a Ring of Tenacious Will or, hell, just playing a shielding swordmage, you can always get up to twenty surges per day. Not that that much matters, seeing as how you can just use a ritual to trade surges back and forth between encounters. Avangion Rising wouldn't be even remotely overpowered if it weren't for the fact that, unlike Invincible Mind and War Master (the latter of which is actually a leader destiny), it does not require an immediate action to trigger.
Ceaseless Guardian (Never Again): This has a similar problem to Avangion but probably shouldn't make the list for two reasons. One, unlike Avangion, the healing is flat surge value, not Surge value +Ability Modifier. Secondly, it doesn't help you unless you're preventing death. I know that seems like it's small but really, if the entire party falls unconscious, as long as no one actually dies, they'll remain unconscious. You can't use Never Again to really keep your DPR up most of the time. Ceaseless Guardian deserves honorable mention for having the same issues as Avangion, but honestly it probably doesn't deserve being on this list.
Cosmic Soul? (Cosmic Connection): You know, I look at Cosmic Soul and don't really see (snark snark) it as an overpowered destiny. But honestly, all attacks are Range Sight? Imagine using a telescope to blast away with magic missile. This one is definitely a widget technique, so it gets an honorable mention. In practical play, the feature and rest of the path are mechanically next to useless.
Dead God Avatar (Sacrifice): I really hate to have all these borderline issues. With Dead God Avatar, it's not overpowered at will, but for at least three encounters per day, you can basically have unlimited encounter attacks. Imagine using Tumbling Strike every single round. Or more practically, Sever the Source. The surge cost makes it only useful for limited builds though, so don't expect this destiny to be ruining too many games.
Elf High Mage (Empowered By Life): Another widget build. This time, it involves having someone willing to trade surges to you after the end of every encounter, again seriously reducing the practicality of the power. But being to automatically get yourself a critical hit can't be ignored. After all, imagine a Basilisk Soul monk automatically critically hitting and petrifying enemies left and right. If nothing else, using the feature to trigger a healing daily power means that the end cost is virtually nill.
Magister (Magic's Master): Did you know that there's a ritual that gives you the effect of an extended rest? Meaning, once per day, you can gain the benefits as if it's tomorrow. I'm reminded of how a 21st level Wu Jen in 3.5 could use Persistent Time Stop. Aside from the blatant exceptions though, it's not a big issue.
Perfect Slayer (Perfect Killer): This is probably one of the most absurd features on this list. You take a multiclass feat that gives, at best, 2d6+12 damage per encounter (well, maybe not at best) and turn it into a class that lets you deal 4d6+24 damage per attack. If you have brutal barrage, Bam-your damage per round just got upped by 16d6+96. Yes, that's 152 on average. This is almost exclusively useful against solo monsters mind you, since you'll only be able to place your shroud twice, and only one of those will max that to four shrouds. In addition, if your DM is using the Cleanser rules for solo bosses, don't expect your shrouds to last even that long. Though, it's time to invest in a way to regain an encounter utility power (if you can find one).
Planeshaper (Shape Reality): This power is only "Totally awesome" on its own, but when you consider the possibility to "Box in" enemies without any attack roll, saving throw, etc-that's when the sheer brokenness kicks in. Not as effective against huge or larger enemies though.
Punisher of the Gods (Bringer of Dooms): How does this interact with Vorpal Weaponry?! In any event, maximum damage is a whole lot like getting an automatic critical hit. Just imagine the synergy with Rage Strike. Though a more practical approach is for an Executioner to try it out-your encounter attack now deals +90 damage. Cool story bro.
Saint (Golden Halo): As if divine healers weren't already insane enough, now you have the ability to heal an additional 25 HP. Unlike every other source, this isn't surge specific. Meaning that Astral Seal does, in fact, still heal about 35 or more HP.
The sad thing is that, most of the paths that didn't make this list, really do kind of suck. Oh, there's a few exceptions-Archspell, Archmage, Demiurge, just to name a few. But it just seems like someone decided somewhere down the line that 30th level is for suckers. Go figure.
But somewhere along the way, the developers seem to have decided that "Epic" means "Outside of the domain of balance." It's true that 4th Edition is far more balanced than third edition ever was at epic, but I'm often left wondering "what were they thinking?" when I see a class feature or power that's above 23rd level. Though honestly, with some classes, it's not even limited to that high level, but I digress.
There is an inherent thinking in most people's minds, in my experience, towards wanting to start campaigns at lower levels-namely, level one. The reduced complexity means it's easy to get into the game and play from scratch, and it allows for more room to grow. But campaigns are finite entities, and advancement is relatively linear. In short, the higher level something is, the less often you're likely to see it in real play. Which means the less playtesting it gets. So when something at epic is nerfed, you can pretty much bet it's because it was just flat-out broken.
By far the worst offender in this department is the aforementioned level thirty. After all, when you're 30th level, why are you still playing? You've maxed your XP, and have only one level's worth of treasure to gather. Perhaps you wish to beat the crap out of Tiamat. Which shouldn't be hard, considering you're laden with the features I'm about to describe! A lot of destinies also have overpowered 26th level utilities, but that's a bit different of an issue, and almost universally is limited to 1/day (which because it's "Only a Daily" means it doesn't count, am I right?)
It's the Top X of Y overpowered Epic Destiny 30th level features list! You'll notice that a lot of these destinies are of the "WTF that's worthless" variety if you were to ignore these features. Go figure-I guess that constitutes "Balance."
Glorious Spirit (Bearer of Doom): Reading over this, I was really blindsided. On the one hand, you'd think it'd be relatively useless-after all, who wants to miss with a power, right? But it's actually really quite insidious. Bearer of Doom works in junction with any single target power-including daily attacks. Here we have a good way to get unlimited rages, unlimited heals, unlimited who knows what! All you have to do is attack unarmed and you're fighting at -9 to hit. Throw in Power Attack for good measure and you're at -11. If you can figure out any other way of crippling your attack bonus, that goes a long way. Also useful for when you want to hit-Storm of Blades comes to mind
Arcane Sword (Spellsword Perfection): Holy Frack on a Frackertonbox. Whatever that means. Arcane Sword is the quintessential "Playing for 30" Epic destiny. Level 21 is mediocre (roughly equivalent to an average epic feat), 26th level is utterly useless, and I've no idea how to interpret 24th level-does your sword automatically win the battle, since it can't be attacked? But the Coup De Grace is At-Will Lightning Bolt Charge. And let's be frank-there's maybe one or two other powers that are even remotely as useful, but under virtually all circumstances? Lightning Bolt Charge is where it's at. Deal more damage per round than a ranger! Unless said ranger managed to find one of these epic destinies. What's great is that this one feature can take a build that has no viable at-will attacks-because it has no Intelligence based attacks and only multiclassed Swordmage-and give it a viable at-will option. It's absurd.
Archlich (Essence of Undeath): You know, to be honest, I don't even know if this is overpowered. It feels overpowered to me, but that's a bad barometer. It doesn't really belong on this list-at least not as long as I'm keeping Archmage, Archspell, and Lorekeeper off the list. Still, with the Archlich's autoplinkage of minions, a bard lich can have a crapton of heals per encounter. Fair warning: due to the unique dynamic they incur, Rules As Written disallows an artificer from actually being able to use this feature to regain Curative Admixture uses. Go figure.
Avangion (Avangion Rising): Who needs leaders anymore, am I right? With a Ring of Tenacious Will or, hell, just playing a shielding swordmage, you can always get up to twenty surges per day. Not that that much matters, seeing as how you can just use a ritual to trade surges back and forth between encounters. Avangion Rising wouldn't be even remotely overpowered if it weren't for the fact that, unlike Invincible Mind and War Master (the latter of which is actually a leader destiny), it does not require an immediate action to trigger.
Ceaseless Guardian (Never Again): This has a similar problem to Avangion but probably shouldn't make the list for two reasons. One, unlike Avangion, the healing is flat surge value, not Surge value +Ability Modifier. Secondly, it doesn't help you unless you're preventing death. I know that seems like it's small but really, if the entire party falls unconscious, as long as no one actually dies, they'll remain unconscious. You can't use Never Again to really keep your DPR up most of the time. Ceaseless Guardian deserves honorable mention for having the same issues as Avangion, but honestly it probably doesn't deserve being on this list.
Cosmic Soul? (Cosmic Connection): You know, I look at Cosmic Soul and don't really see (snark snark) it as an overpowered destiny. But honestly, all attacks are Range Sight? Imagine using a telescope to blast away with magic missile. This one is definitely a widget technique, so it gets an honorable mention. In practical play, the feature and rest of the path are mechanically next to useless.
Dead God Avatar (Sacrifice): I really hate to have all these borderline issues. With Dead God Avatar, it's not overpowered at will, but for at least three encounters per day, you can basically have unlimited encounter attacks. Imagine using Tumbling Strike every single round. Or more practically, Sever the Source. The surge cost makes it only useful for limited builds though, so don't expect this destiny to be ruining too many games.
Elf High Mage (Empowered By Life): Another widget build. This time, it involves having someone willing to trade surges to you after the end of every encounter, again seriously reducing the practicality of the power. But being to automatically get yourself a critical hit can't be ignored. After all, imagine a Basilisk Soul monk automatically critically hitting and petrifying enemies left and right. If nothing else, using the feature to trigger a healing daily power means that the end cost is virtually nill.
Magister (Magic's Master): Did you know that there's a ritual that gives you the effect of an extended rest? Meaning, once per day, you can gain the benefits as if it's tomorrow. I'm reminded of how a 21st level Wu Jen in 3.5 could use Persistent Time Stop. Aside from the blatant exceptions though, it's not a big issue.
Perfect Slayer (Perfect Killer): This is probably one of the most absurd features on this list. You take a multiclass feat that gives, at best, 2d6+12 damage per encounter (well, maybe not at best) and turn it into a class that lets you deal 4d6+24 damage per attack. If you have brutal barrage, Bam-your damage per round just got upped by 16d6+96. Yes, that's 152 on average. This is almost exclusively useful against solo monsters mind you, since you'll only be able to place your shroud twice, and only one of those will max that to four shrouds. In addition, if your DM is using the Cleanser rules for solo bosses, don't expect your shrouds to last even that long. Though, it's time to invest in a way to regain an encounter utility power (if you can find one).
Planeshaper (Shape Reality): This power is only "Totally awesome" on its own, but when you consider the possibility to "Box in" enemies without any attack roll, saving throw, etc-that's when the sheer brokenness kicks in. Not as effective against huge or larger enemies though.
Punisher of the Gods (Bringer of Dooms): How does this interact with Vorpal Weaponry?! In any event, maximum damage is a whole lot like getting an automatic critical hit. Just imagine the synergy with Rage Strike. Though a more practical approach is for an Executioner to try it out-your encounter attack now deals +90 damage. Cool story bro.
Saint (Golden Halo): As if divine healers weren't already insane enough, now you have the ability to heal an additional 25 HP. Unlike every other source, this isn't surge specific. Meaning that Astral Seal does, in fact, still heal about 35 or more HP.
The sad thing is that, most of the paths that didn't make this list, really do kind of suck. Oh, there's a few exceptions-Archspell, Archmage, Demiurge, just to name a few. But it just seems like someone decided somewhere down the line that 30th level is for suckers. Go figure.
Monday, May 30, 2011
Now you're thinking with instances!
There's a term that I tend to use when describing mechanics in Dungeons and Dragons, and near as I'm aware, it's not used anywhere in the game rules. That word is "instance."
Damage comes in many forms, but a lot of these aren't even officially reconized. You have the "Base damage" that a power deals, ala the [W] damage and dX damage of weapon and implement powers, respectively. You have the ability damage many powers give. You have "Extra damage," which comes from a number of sources.
The significance of a damage instance is that, whenever you gain a bonus to damage, or a bonus to damage rolls, theoretically, it would apply once per damage instance-rather than once per "attack." The significance here is that you'll often have situations like Draconic Arrogance, where pushing or knocking an enemy prone deals damage-not in addition to existing damage (Extra damage), but rather, in and of itself. Any Extra Damage that applies to damage instances (rather than attacks) would apply to Draconic Arrogance's damage.
In short, a Runepriest is a monk's best friend. Pelor's Sun Blessing can be really useful for a Radiant Fist. And don't get me started on the Morninglord paragon path.
But what is most interesting is that sometimes, extra damage occurs when you least expect it, and other times, what you would expect to be extra damage isn't. For instance: Hellish Rebuke appears at first glance to deal damage that is then effectively doubled (sans Warlock's Curse) if you're damaged. But this isn't correct. Hellish Rebuke deals extra damage if you're damaged, meaning it doesn't create a seperate damage instance. But what's utterly freakish is that this non-seperate damage instance occurs at a different time than the power initially deals damage-so a creature effectively retroactively takes more damage, which can create the rather confusing paradox where a creature attacks the warlock, thus meaning that it had effectively suffered more damage than originally anticipated, and drops dead because of it! In practice, the Extra Damage nature of Hellish Rebuke just means that it doesn't benefit from Implement Focus or other bonuses to damage rolls-no matter what, the only damage the target will suffer above and beyond the original damage of the attack will be 1d6+Constitution modifier (or 2d6+Constitution modifier if you're epic).
For the flip side, sometimes you expect damage to be extra damage but it isn't. For instance, a Firestorm Arrow deals 1d6 fire damage per enhancement bonus to the target-which you would expect to be extra damage. But since it also deals fire damage to adjacent enemies, in reality, it's actually a separate damage instance. If you're using a fire damage attack with firestorm arrows, the target's resistance (or vulnerability!) to fire is going to apply not once, but twice! Likewise, a Lightning Weapon's daily item power deals lightning damage to the targets-not extra damage.
Perhaps the most bizarre example I've found is the Tempest Whetstone-dealing extra damage to a target that wasn't damaged in the first place. Theoretically, this would mean that vulnerability and resistance don't trigger-or maybe that the original target's resistance and vulnerability trigger for them! But that's absurd; a more reasonable assumption would be "This doesn't trigger bonuses to damage" (such as Headsman's Chop).
Damage comes in many forms, but a lot of these aren't even officially reconized. You have the "Base damage" that a power deals, ala the [W] damage and dX damage of weapon and implement powers, respectively. You have the ability damage many powers give. You have "Extra damage," which comes from a number of sources.
The significance of a damage instance is that, whenever you gain a bonus to damage, or a bonus to damage rolls, theoretically, it would apply once per damage instance-rather than once per "attack." The significance here is that you'll often have situations like Draconic Arrogance, where pushing or knocking an enemy prone deals damage-not in addition to existing damage (Extra damage), but rather, in and of itself. Any Extra Damage that applies to damage instances (rather than attacks) would apply to Draconic Arrogance's damage.
In short, a Runepriest is a monk's best friend. Pelor's Sun Blessing can be really useful for a Radiant Fist. And don't get me started on the Morninglord paragon path.
But what is most interesting is that sometimes, extra damage occurs when you least expect it, and other times, what you would expect to be extra damage isn't. For instance: Hellish Rebuke appears at first glance to deal damage that is then effectively doubled (sans Warlock's Curse) if you're damaged. But this isn't correct. Hellish Rebuke deals extra damage if you're damaged, meaning it doesn't create a seperate damage instance. But what's utterly freakish is that this non-seperate damage instance occurs at a different time than the power initially deals damage-so a creature effectively retroactively takes more damage, which can create the rather confusing paradox where a creature attacks the warlock, thus meaning that it had effectively suffered more damage than originally anticipated, and drops dead because of it! In practice, the Extra Damage nature of Hellish Rebuke just means that it doesn't benefit from Implement Focus or other bonuses to damage rolls-no matter what, the only damage the target will suffer above and beyond the original damage of the attack will be 1d6+Constitution modifier (or 2d6+Constitution modifier if you're epic).
For the flip side, sometimes you expect damage to be extra damage but it isn't. For instance, a Firestorm Arrow deals 1d6 fire damage per enhancement bonus to the target-which you would expect to be extra damage. But since it also deals fire damage to adjacent enemies, in reality, it's actually a separate damage instance. If you're using a fire damage attack with firestorm arrows, the target's resistance (or vulnerability!) to fire is going to apply not once, but twice! Likewise, a Lightning Weapon's daily item power deals lightning damage to the targets-not extra damage.
Perhaps the most bizarre example I've found is the Tempest Whetstone-dealing extra damage to a target that wasn't damaged in the first place. Theoretically, this would mean that vulnerability and resistance don't trigger-or maybe that the original target's resistance and vulnerability trigger for them! But that's absurd; a more reasonable assumption would be "This doesn't trigger bonuses to damage" (such as Headsman's Chop).
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